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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13662: Sep 16, 2017 02:22:42 pm
      I actually think the goalies are ok, not top class, but certainly good enough. I think a lot of the pressure comes from the system we play and that when we play as open as we do. When you do that the CB's and DM have to be 100% top notch players, super organised and disciplined, we just don't have that at the moment and instead of buying more attackers we need to break the bank and get that defensive core unit in place, I'd be budgeting £150 million on that area, if we do that well, then we win the league.
      Don't know about breaking the bank, but we should be looking for defenders who communicate with one another...ie I don't thing that when Arsenal had Sol Campbell, Tony Adams, Paul Merson and Nigel Winterburn in defense that they where individually great defenders but they constantly communicated with one another and knew that they could rely on one another to let them know where the dangers where around them, and if needed to cover one another.... But yes I agree with you totally
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13663: Sep 16, 2017 02:31:33 pm
      Agreed - but Robertson aside - there's no material player to player improvement in that defence. Clyne maybe - but his final ball is worse than Bertie's offensively.

      So we're stuck with what we've got till January and relying on him and Buvac to effect that change to these individuals. That's because - as we both state - it's unlikely he'll suddenly set up differently to screen the defence (other perhaps than in the odd European away leg).

      Does that make him principled? inspired? limited? stubborn? arrogant? Maybe all of 'em or none.....

      Are there CBs out there that could've improved us as well as VVD? Of course there are - on that I think he's just posturing to protect what he has OR screening for the fact he's prepared to wait (like Naby) and believes VVD is a matter of time.

      I'd like a goalie and a 2nd CB at the same time by the way!

      For now though - it's what we have and that probably means leveraging the strength and trying to improve (not mitigate / offset) the weakness. So we'd best get used to the taste of bitter almonds on the finger nails :)

      The point I'm trying to make (rather cack handedly it seems) is that a change of personnel can change our defensive capabilities without any compromise.

      If that is indeed the case and I'm not just talking sh*te, then Jürgen, (in a "money is not an issue" environment),  really has gambled that the addition of Salah and Solanke will out-weigh not adding to a pish poor defence. Its not like they've just started playing badly.

      I just can't wrap my napper round why he would, consciously, ignore the painfully obvious.

      In my opinion, (amongst others) - We definitely need more than one [VvD] centre half and we need more than one [Naby] centre midfield: they're out there and we supposedly have money... why F***ing wait?

      Anyhows... whine over... we will eat and sh*te Burnley and all cracks be forgotten for another while. So me and ma wee pal Joe... 😁
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13664: Sep 16, 2017 04:05:39 pm
      Lord knows mate.

      I sure don't.

      Just home and got me stream so I see our centre back chuckle brothers have been at it again  :mad: :mad:
      green_bear
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13665: Sep 16, 2017 04:55:03 pm
      Waited forever to make the change at the 80th minute again.  >:( >:(
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13666: Sep 16, 2017 04:56:33 pm
      You sure there was no solution, Jürgen? Don't bullshit us, please... another transfer window mistake. Stop underestimating the Premier League. We're up against teams with £450m worth of transfers in their starting XI, we're not going to win it with Ragnar Klavan at the back. Wake up, get real.
      green_bear
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13667: Sep 16, 2017 05:03:06 pm
      You sure there was no solution, Jürgen? Don't bullshit us, please... another transfer window mistake. Stop underestimating the Premier League. We're up against teams with £450m worth of transfers in their starting XI, we're not going to win it with Ragnar Klavan at the back. Wake up, get real.

      If he really feels there's no solution then we need to bring someone in who could help him find the solution. Because the problem is so apparent there to see.
      We still look like conceding every time the ball is lost in the middle of the park. We panic every time a cross is delivered into the box. Absolutely nothing has changed.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13668: Sep 16, 2017 05:05:08 pm
      If he loses the fans it is really his fault.
      Boston not la
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13669: Sep 16, 2017 05:09:44 pm
      Would like him to refuse to do the press sh*te after that,take the fine.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13670: Sep 16, 2017 05:25:58 pm
      I've not seen any of our so called competitors going around signing a 5 million quid keeper, a 7 million quid left back or a 3 million pound centre back.

      Either they have missed a real trick in filling their squads with these types of players or we've been barking up the wrong tree.
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13671: Sep 16, 2017 05:46:37 pm
      Would like him to refuse to do the press sh*te after that,take the fine.

      I'd rather him explain to us how we've apparently failed to improve after a summer when we were supposedly flush with cash.
      redindian
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13672: Sep 16, 2017 05:50:51 pm
      I'd rather him explain to us how we've apparently failed to improve after a summer when we were supposedly flush with cash.

      We do know the answer to that FL, don't we? There aren't enough quality defenders out there, defenders better than Klavan and Lovren.
      lreland
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13673: Sep 16, 2017 05:53:33 pm
      Were do we go from here if klopp end up be failure here
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13674: Sep 16, 2017 06:00:43 pm
      Were do we go from here if klopp end up be failure here

      You start to wonder why people like you didn't choose to castigate cu*ts like Michael Edwards, Mike Gordon and any other fuckwit above the manager.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13675: Sep 16, 2017 06:10:05 pm
      You start to wonder why people like you didn't choose to castigate cu*ts like Michael Edwards, Mike Gordon and any other fuckwit above the manager.

      That's it mate, people can spout this bullshit about us having the money and trying to sign players but until we actually sign said players we are always after it's all just talk...

      Seems that the only players we ever sign without fuss are potential for the future.

      Any big money signings never go through and the mid range £30 - £40 mil only seem to go through once we've significantly offset the amount we've spent so far in the window.

      You've got to be a bit dense in the head if you don't think something fu**ed up is happening.

      Not a chance there were no players better than OX, Robertson and Solanke available in the summer.

      ... and to say that there were none better than Lovren and Klavan is F***ing ludicrous.

      I honestly think you could pluck any centre back and they'd be just as good. Whats Steven Caulker up to these days. I bet he's better than at least one of the two clowns.
      fckmediocrity
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13676: Sep 16, 2017 06:25:52 pm
      Looking at City you have to wonder 'what if' we went and spent 150mil in the summer on defenders we would've looked like them or even better.. I feel that Jürgen missed a beat this summer and I hope it won't come to bite him the ass long term.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13677: Sep 16, 2017 06:30:16 pm
      Looking at City you have to wonder 'what if' we went and spent 150mil in the summer on defenders we would've looked like them or even better.. I feel that Jürgen missed a beat this summer and I hope it won't come to bite him the ass long term.

      Were fu**ed anyway because there is only VVD, what happens if he doesn't want to come or suffers a career ending injury?

      That's the F***ing ludicrous part because it's him or bust we will be stuck with Lovren and Klavan.

      Or will we actually do what we should have done this summer and look at any one of the literal 100's of defenders better than them two.
      Pippen
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13678: Sep 16, 2017 06:43:18 pm
      Were do we go from here if klopp end up be failure here

      Thomas Tuchel.

      But give Klopp at least 2 more full seasons, no matter how much we are pissed. We need continuity, F***ing CONTINUITY! Alex F. didn't have success with ManU right off the bat either back then in the 80's.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13679: Sep 16, 2017 06:53:46 pm
      *gets tin hat out expecting flak

      40 years a red.

      A sh*te week.

      Let's pump Leicester.

      AussieRed
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13680: Sep 17, 2017 12:53:49 am
      I get your point Aussie and ultimately there will come a time when people say "enough" but in my opinion we shouldn't even be on the first step towards uttering that phrase and I'll explain why.

      In Brendan's nearly season we were scintillating in attack and pretty hopeless in defence, but this was lauded as a great achievement and as close as we've come in blah blah blah. People suggested it was down to certain players rather than the manager why we got there but whatever side of that debate you sit you can't argue that we all enjoyed it thoroughly, the chase, the almost, ok ultimately agonising defeat but it was fun and how football 'should' be played.

      Now Brendan took that team and that style and threw it out of the window, turning scintillating football in tired old lump and hope footy, with Benteke isolated, Firmino sidelined and frankly the most pathetic transfer situation I've ever witnessed.

      So what has changed and how have we progressed? We've gone to two finals, a semi-final, re-established ourselves in the CL and just taken a point off our hardest opponents in the group when we really should have won. We've gone from dour football to heavy metal football but rather than revel in the quality of our attacking play we're all moping around like it's doomed because the boss hasn't solved the defensive woes.

      He's re-established our brand of footy to, quite frankly, the most entertaining to watch in the league. We have a transfer system in place that clearly backs the boss, targets were identified by him and the targets he wanted were pushed for. The lines coming out from FSG and Jürgen are one and the same. A coaching staff that appear like vital cogs in a well oiled machine, the academy producing talent and that talent being given a real chance and a real future at the club. So many things are right yet we focus on the one negative, it's honestly insulting to what he's achieved so far.

      All this talk of "the boss better sort it or his days are numbered" really grates, sure if we were languishing in 8th or 9th and playing football without any sign of getting better but we're not. Back the man, don't let the media and our petty focus on the negative drive the narrative, show appreciation for the positives he's brought to the club rather than act like a spoilt, entitled child (not you, more us in general) who expects the title to be somehow delivered with perfection rather than the odd bump in the road.

      This man is gold dust, appreciate him while he's here because I bet by the time he leaves you'll be gutted he's gone.

      Great post mate.

      Like I said, I want Jürgen here, I want him to bring us all the success we have been craving for so long and I know in my heart he's the Man to bring us that success but he has to sort that F***ing defence out if we are to achieve any success.

      I paid particular attention to watching Joel Matip last night and I've never had a problem with him till I actually watched him. He's as F***ing bad as Lovren, Klavan and Moreno. I give a pass mark to TAA but the rest of that back line is a mess.

      If we and the whole world can see it, why did he count on VVD so much? He should have been filling both the CB's spots over summer because Matip, Lovren and Klavan, not only give me anxiety but I know we won't be challenging for Titles if they are the cornerstone of our defence.

      Hope he sorts it out in January but I have grave fears he won't.



      trebor12
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13681: Sep 17, 2017 09:15:10 am
      Same mistakes as last season, our defence is sh*t. We had things to to sort out in the summer like get in a proper left back...tick. We had to strengthen our CB positions...untick. We had to have other striker options...tick. That was it wasn't it. The glaring mistake was not strengthening at CB so ok we haven't done that now and Klopp must know that we are now very weak now in this area but yet were still playing the same way. We look fantastic to watch going forward and we now have players to cover these positions in attack. We have options in midfield aswell but these attacking positions offer no protection to our back 4. These players now look afraid of every ball that comes their way and that's not going to change because it's the way we play. I just don't get it, we're looking like what we did under Brendan and that's to outscore the oposition. You only have to look at Conte last season. He tryed a formation, it didnt work so he changed it. I'm not saying we go to 3 at the back but our back 4 needs protection and alot is down to confidence but alot is also down to the way we play. We play this high line and yes klopps philosophies make sense we win the ball in the opositions half so we are closer to the goal. This puts alot of pressure on our defenders and they are just not getting it right. If Klopp is that stubborn to keep faith in this formation then he has to take some of the blame. My understanding was when he came here we played this 4 3 3 because it was the best formation for the players we had available and he's stuck with it, no matter what, no other way of playing. Hendo offers no or not enough protection for our back 4 and not sure he's told to because he looks more like a dlpm than a cdm. We're so up and down. Everytime we go forward we look like the best team in the league but when we loose the ball and the oposition attacks, my heart is in my mouth. If we keep this up, next season Naby Keita will be playing in a team in the Europa league.
      MIRO
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13682: Sep 17, 2017 10:16:51 am
      Were do we go from here if klopp end up be failure here

      F.F.S.

      Where you a knife sharpener in a previous existence?
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13683: Sep 17, 2017 10:27:00 am
      If Klopp doesn't sort out our defence, both individually and as a working unit, he will lose his job.

      We are living in a football world where managers lose their job after four games! More than ever this is a results business because big bucks are at stake. Four games! When you consider our defence is looking worse than it was when he arrived 2 seasons ago, you don't have to be a genius to see where this is slowly heading. 

      I'm not making a post about whether or not Klopp needs sacking (for the record, no he doesn't), but all I can say is that I love Liverpool and have for a very long time, so if this carries on, I don't care who the man in charge is, if they can't turn it around, they need moving on. Managers come and go but Liverpool will always be here and when people can see the way we defend, questions will inevitably be asked, and are they are being asked.

      Problem is, I am beginning to think Klopp isn't a great tactician. I think he's a great man manager who gets the best out his squad, but there is something wrong with our defence, and either Klopp can't see it, or sees it but thinks he can fix it. So far his fix isn't working. Whatever and whoever is to blame for the VvD debacle, it's astounding we didn't land him. The fact we were going to bid for him gives me hope; it leads me to believe Klopp can see we have issues and that he's trying to address them, and that he's only saying things like "it's not a defensive problem we have" not to throw his current defenders under the bus.

      Keita will improve our midfield and our defensive play, but much more is needed if we are going to stop giving points away due to ridiculous defending. Bringing in 'a' centre back in January to improve us, goes a long way in doing that.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13684: Sep 17, 2017 11:52:19 am
      If Klopp doesn't sort out our defence, both individually and as a working unit, he will lose his job.

      We are living in a football world where managers lose their job after four games! More than ever this is a results business because big bucks are at stake. Four games! When you consider our defence is looking worse than it was when he arrived 2 seasons ago, you don't have to be a genius to see where this is slowly heading. 

      I'm not making a post about whether or not Klopp needs sacking (for the record, no he doesn't), but all I can say is that I love Liverpool and have for a very long time, so if this carries on, I don't care who the man in charge is, if they can't turn it around, they need moving on. Managers come and go but Liverpool will always be here and when people can see the way we defend, questions will inevitably be asked, and are they are being asked.

      Problem is, I am beginning to think Klopp isn't a great tactician. I think he's a great man manager who gets the best out his squad, but there is something wrong with our defence, and either Klopp can't see it, or sees it but thinks he can fix it. So far his fix isn't working. Whatever and whoever is to blame for the VvD debacle, it's astounding we didn't land him. The fact we were going to bid for him gives me hope; it leads me to believe Klopp can see we have issues and that he's trying to address them, and that he's only saying things like "it's not a defensive problem we have" not to throw his current defenders under the bus.

      Keita will improve our midfield and our defensive play, but much more is needed if we are going to stop giving points away due to ridiculous defending. Bringing in 'a' centre back in January to improve us, goes a long way in doing that.

      A buddy of mine tells me we need to sign De Vrij. He says he will make us a lot better and would fit in well with Matip. Looks slow to me and that's against Serie A competition. He says I'm wrong and he is top notch. This guy is someone who eats, sleeps, and craps football.

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