Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

      Read 1518292 times
      0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,046 posts | 2741 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14651: Oct 24, 2017 06:05:49 pm
      It's part recognition that it takes time - real time - for managers to have a meaningful impact. It's also part recognition that we would never in a million years replace him with someone better. Losing Klopp would lead to Roy Part 2 (Allardyce etc).

      Not funny at all - perfectly sensible.

      How long had ranieri? It can be done. Anyway im not even talking winning the league im talking about making us respectable.

      In 2 years hes not improved us a tap at the back in fact were probably worse. He claimed outside VVD nobody was better than any of our defenders. He sticks by keepers who ate a liabilify when a top keeper joined our rivals.

      He has a lot to answer for. How has he not sorted that defence in 2 years? People blame the board etc same old deflections from the fact the manager has failed to sort our main issue but because he gives hugs and smiles and funny interviews hes beyond question? Not for me
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 727 posts | 111 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14652: Oct 24, 2017 06:45:46 pm
      How long had ranieri? It can be done. Anyway im not even talking winning the league im talking about making us respectable.

      In 2 years hes not improved us a tap at the back in fact were probably worse. He claimed outside VVD nobody was better than any of our defenders. He sticks by keepers who ate a liabilify when a top keeper joined our rivals.

      He has a lot to answer for. How has he not sorted that defence in 2 years? People blame the board etc same old deflections from the fact the manager has failed to sort our main issue but because he gives hugs and smiles and funny interviews hes beyond question? Not for me


      If you look at my previous posts you'll see I mostly agree with that. There are definitely areas where he can do better. I don't agree with you that he should be sacked - I think he needs more time. Ranieri was a one-off and completely without precedent. Klopp definitely has a lot of questions to answer - questions about his signings, about the coaching or lack of it at Melwood, and about his man-management of players (in my opinion he was just as at fault for the situation with Sakho as Sakho was). But I strongly feel that managers need time and that frequently chopping and changing is not the solution.
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,046 posts | 2741 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14653: Oct 24, 2017 06:51:19 pm
      If you look at my previous posts you'll see I mostly agree with that. There are definitely areas where he can do better. I don't agree with you that he should be sacked - I think he needs more time. Ranieri was a one-off and completely without precedent. Klopp definitely has a lot of questions to answer - questions about his signings, about the coaching or lack of it at Melwood, and about his man-management of players (in my opinion he was just as at fault for the situation with Sakho as Sakho was). But I strongly feel that managers need time and that frequently chopping and changing is not the solution.

      I havent once said he should be sacked. I think hes far more accountable then whats being admitted. Hes getting off light and I expect more from him. If people assume that means sacked it doesnt.

      Actually sacked would be the handy option. I want to see him prove hes as good as I thought. I want to see him make us mean at the back. I want him to make us into a team people are afraid of. I want him to improve his players on the training field and maybe change tactics now and again.

      Too much to ask?
      ruthcity
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,867 posts | 1465 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14654: Oct 24, 2017 07:04:00 pm
      His biggest mistake was not listening to the supporters !

      ;D. Customers are always right. And he's just a leader of a live entertainment troupe. Now give us what we want. We don't like some of your actors and some of their moves!
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 727 posts | 111 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14655: Oct 24, 2017 07:18:15 pm
      Just reading around some of the topics. Theres a fair few posts saying several players should never play for the club again and I agree. What I find bizzare though is nobody calling for the head of the man who continually picks and sticks by the players we want hung drawn and quartered.

      Funny old game.


      I havent once said he should be sacked. I think hes far more accountable then whats being admitted. Hes getting off light and I expect more from him. If people assume that means sacked it doesnt.

      Actually sacked would be the handy option. I want to see him prove hes as good as I thought. I want to see him make us mean at the back. I want him to make us into a team people are afraid of. I want him to improve his players on the training field and maybe change tactics now and again.

      Too much to ask?


      Well ... you've said that you're surprised people aren't calling for his head and then said that him being sacked would be handy ... so I'm sorry but that does amount to saying that he should be sacked.

      Loads of people - myself included - have said that there are many areas in which he needs to improve and do better at.

      If that's all you're saying too then I don't understand why you're also saying it would be handy for Klopp to get sacked
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 14,342 posts | 3368 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14656: Oct 24, 2017 07:23:44 pm
      What did losing Brendan lead to then? I remember people at the time wringing their hands and thinking who could we possibly attract to manage us and then along comes one of the biggest names in world football. If Klopp gets the sack and I think the possibility is growing week by week then we will get another top manager, personally I'd love to get Ancelotti, a manager who knows how to set up a team including defence.

      Ancelloti's task would be to build a team, his cv shows he prettty much comes into settled well established teams, not sure if a longer term job is his cup of tea
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,046 posts | 2741 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14657: Oct 24, 2017 07:27:20 pm


      Well ... you've said that you're surprised people aren't calling for his head and then said that him being sacked would be handy ... so I'm sorry but that does amount to saying that he should be sacked.

      Loads of people - myself included - have said that there are many areas in which he needs to improve and do better at.

      If that's all you're saying too then I don't understand why you're also saying it would be handy for Klopp to get sacked


      Be handy for him. The harder thing is to get it right get the hard work done on the training ground. Iron out his teams faults.

      If he got sacked the blame would lie with the owners the board the players with the majority of fans and hed be off the hook. Thats why sacking him be handy.
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 727 posts | 111 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14658: Oct 24, 2017 07:34:11 pm
      Be handy for him. The harder thing is to get it right get the hard work done on the training ground. Iron out his teams faults.

      If he got sacked the blame would lie with the owners the board the players with the majority of fans and hed be off the hook. Thats why sacking him be handy.

      Fair enough ... as I said before, I do largely agree with you about Klopp's performance. I wasn't happy with him hooking Lovren like he did because it shifted the blame onto one player when really the manager is the person who was responsible for the shambles we saw at Wembley on Sunday. I think that if the team continues like they did against Spurs, it won't matter what any of us think - I can see the owners getting rid of him and possibly giving it to someone like Gerrard on an interim basis. I hope that doesn't happen and that Klopp can finally get the grips with our defence!
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,046 posts | 2741 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14659: Oct 24, 2017 07:39:00 pm
      Fair enough ... as I said before, I do largely agree with you about Klopp's performance. I wasn't happy with him hooking Lovren like he did because it shifted the blame onto one player when really the manager is the person who was responsible for the shambles we saw at Wembley on Sunday. I think that if the team continues like they did against Spurs, it won't matter what any of us think - I can see the owners getting rid of him and possibly giving it to someone like Gerrard on an interim basis. I hope that doesn't happen and that Klopp can finally get the grips with our defence!

      Apparently Lovern deleted all things Liverpool from his instagram page!

      Personally ive no problem wigh him being whipped off. Id ask what has Klopp and the coaching staff done to help his game? If theyve done all they can then stop picking him and putting him in the firing line. Likewise Mignolet.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 39,947 posts | 8458 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14660: Oct 24, 2017 08:03:59 pm
      Apparently Lovern deleted all things Liverpool from his instagram page!

      He was getting death threats from dickheads after the game on Sunday, mate.

      Found Dean Saunders comments from the other day interesting, he said Lovren's biggest problem was his lack of desire to grab Moreno by the throat and demand he didn't leave him so exposed and to stay in position, plus if Moreno does get caught further up the pitch where's the midfielders to cover Moreno.

      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,046 posts | 2741 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14661: Oct 24, 2017 08:35:48 pm
      He was getting death threats from dickheads after the game on Sunday, mate.

      Found Dean Saunders comments from the other day interesting, he said Lovren's biggest problem was his lack of desire to grab Moreno by the throat and demand he didn't leave him so exposed and to stay in position, plus if Moreno does get caught further up the pitch where's the midfielders to cover Moreno.



      Ah F**k sake bate that kind of crap.
      PastorGeek
      • Not Actual Geek
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,474 posts | 701 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14662: Oct 24, 2017 10:25:26 pm
      Lovren is not the reason for our defensive problems. The way we play would leave any defender exposed. No Point in signing a new CB if we cant tighten things up ourselves first. We'll be back to square one.
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 44,014 posts | 5760 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14663: Oct 24, 2017 10:52:30 pm
      Lovren is not the reason for our defensive problems. The way we play would leave any defender exposed. No Point in signing a new CB if we cant tighten things up ourselves first. We'll be back to square one.

      If that was the case then why do so many of the goals we concede come from individual errors? Just look at Lovren at the weekend, trying to play offside on the first goal and then bang, Kane has him in his pocket.
      I don't doubt that we need to improve our system but I'm more concerned about the players within the system. If it was the system then why were we still so defensively poor under BR? Who had the same back line apart from Skrtel instead of Matip. And BR was constantly changing the system at one point to no success.

      Lovren may not directly be the reason for our defensive problems, but him and Migs are a worryingly large part of the problem.
      « Last Edit: Oct 24, 2017 10:56:38 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      LFC PAUL
      • Forum Roger Hunt
      • ***

      • 493 posts | 46 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14664: Oct 24, 2017 10:59:07 pm
      Benitez back, Gerrard No 2?
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 20,172 posts | 4401 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14665: Oct 24, 2017 10:59:31 pm
      If that was the case then why do so many of the goals we concede come from individual errors? Just look at Lovren at the weekend, trying to play offside on the first goal and then bang, Kane has him in his pocket.
      I don't doubt that we need to improve our system but I'm more concerned about the players within the system. If it was the system then why were we still so defensively poor under BR? Who had the same back line apart from Skrtel instead of Matip. And BR was constantly changing the system at one point to no success.

      Lovren may not directly be the reason for our defensive problems, but him and Migs are a worryingly large part of the problem.

      Lovren is our Cannavaro don't you know it's the system  :lmao:

      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,542 posts | 2135 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14666: Oct 24, 2017 11:08:39 pm
      How long had ranieri? It can be done. Anyway im not even talking winning the league im talking about making us respectable.

      In 2 years hes not improved us a tap at the back in fact were probably worse. He claimed outside VVD nobody was better than any of our defenders. He sticks by keepers who ate a liabilify when a top keeper joined our rivals.

      He has a lot to answer for. How has he not sorted that defence in 2 years? People blame the board etc same old deflections from the fact the manager has failed to sort our main issue but because he gives hugs and smiles and funny interviews hes beyond question? Not for me


      He's  not beyond question mate. Yes the fans love his personality and the antics at the end of the game or on the touch line (who wouldn't) but you also factor in:

      - His previous record and reputation at Dortmund
      - Tho two cup finals he got us to in his first year
      - A return to the Champions League in year 2 after a 4th place finish in the league
      - and you can factor in a big dose of "I don't believe we would get a manager with anything close to his reputation and pedigree next time around" if he was to be sacked or to walk.

      I personally think we're heading for a 6th place finish this season. I also think that Jürgen is a bit inside ti ink he can simply coach some of our players up to the level he expects. The truth is he should have just shifted them and brought in some more talented players.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14667: Oct 24, 2017 11:13:55 pm
      I'm not sure Klopp is one of the biggest names in world football ... and I definitely don't see how you can be so sure we would get another top manager. We are not the club we used to be so it is by no means a foregone conclusion.





      So are we worse than when Klopp took over? I'm not quite sure why you think that when we are playing in the CL.
      We could easily attract a top manager and they would jump at the chance of coming to us with our decent squad and exciting crop of youngsters.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 39,947 posts | 8458 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14668: Oct 24, 2017 11:17:11 pm
      So are we worse than when Klopp took over? I'm not quite sure why you think that when we are playing in the CL.
      We could easily attract a top manager and they would jump at the chance of coming to us with our decent squad and exciting crop of youngsters.

      Let's see how we do first in the competition and whether we're still in the competition next season, before we start crowing about whether we're doing better or worse.

      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14669: Oct 24, 2017 11:26:52 pm
      He's  not beyond question mate. Yes the fans love his personality and the antics at the end of the game or on the touch line (who wouldn't) but you also factor in:

      - His previous record and reputation at Dortmund
      - Tho two cup finals he got us to in his first year
      - A return to the Champions League in year 2 after a 4th place finish in the league
      - and you can factor in a big dose of "I don't believe we would get a manager with anything close to his reputation and pedigree next time around" if he was to be sacked or to walk.

      I personally think we're heading for a 6th place finish this season. I also think that Jürgen is a bit inside ti ink he can simply coach some of our players up to the level he expects. The truth is he should have just shifted them and brought in some more talented players.

      All probably true Scott but also those 'year 2's' always have to be given "first full year" treatment in my opinion. Sure the cup finals were a bonus in the first season but walking in to a team and having no pre-season, no signings of your own and a raft of injuries has worked massively against us I believe.

      I think Jürgen saw a group come back against Dortmund, only just get beaten against City on penalties and probably overestimated how good they were. Is that a failing on his part when he said he'd give each and every player a fresh slate when he came in, or is it a failing on our part not listening to what he said.

      2nd season, he integrates Mane/Gini/Matip into the team and we do look better as proven in the league getting one of our best points totals in god knows how long, that again probably says to him these lads aren't too far off. They're scoring for fun, just a few little issues to sort out (remembering we were conceding so few shots on target at the time).

      I'm not trying to make an excuse for Jürgen giving further chances to the likes of Lovren, Mignolet etc, but just trying to see it from his point of view. There were enough signs there, judged on only his time here and without the baggage of the past that we're probably much more familiar with than Jürgen, to understand that viewpoint. Whereas against Spurs, on the sidelines, I saw a man accepting a few harsh truths. This was then manifested in his post match where he quite clearly stated to the media "you were right, we were wrong", Jürgen doesn't bother with bullshit, that wasn't a sarcastic comment, it was said as straight as you'll ever see him say something and I think we'll see that now play out.

      Anyone thinking this is a time to change manager though couldn't be further from the right choice. I simply don't understand how that conclusion is reached given all the information we have, I really don't.

      He'll win us the league, it just wont be with Lovren and Mignolet in my opinion.
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,326 posts | 2823 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14670: Oct 28, 2017 11:53:28 am
      Guruji
      • Forum Dean Saunders
      • *

      • 63 posts | 55 
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14671: Oct 28, 2017 02:32:45 pm

      Extremely misleading statistics.

      Rodgers inherited Suarez, and had him available from Day 1. Klopp bought Mane 10 months into his reign.

      A large majority of the "Mane not starting" games comes under Klopp's first 10 months, when the guy hadn't even signed for us. The season where Klopp came in without a pre-season, and where we clearly had no focus on the league and instead had two deep cup runs. Klopp's first full season was very good in the League, with Mane a big part of that, and we clearly missed him during the AFCON. The manager has since addressed our reliance on the man by buying a similar profile player in Salah, who has hit the ground running.

      A large majority of the "Suarez not Starting" games came under Rodgers final full season and the 8 games of the 2015/16 season. The key difference being, he lost his key player after having managed the squad for 2 full seasons already, and was not able to replicate prior results after seeing Luis leave. Not a huge surprise when the attempts to replace the Uruguayan included buying Rickie Lambert, Mario Balotelli and later on, Christian Benteke.

      Every manager has a key player or two which clearly influences their results (see Poch - Kane as classic example), but it's how you respond to that player being out which defines the manager's reign. Already comparing the Mane and Suarez disparities at this stage does not give a true reflection of how much Klopp relies on the player. If anything, it's clear that Klopp has attempted to completely rebuild our attack in the aim of having goals shared amongst all of our forwards, and not relying on any single individual.

      It's a comparison similar to "the first 70 odd games" of both men's reigns, which convenientally coincides with the conclusion of the "nearly season" for TPM. Will be interesting to see how that comparison materialises by 2019.
      « Last Edit: Oct 28, 2017 02:45:32 pm by Guruji »
      Rush
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,455 posts | 1478 
      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14672: Oct 28, 2017 05:47:50 pm
      Beating Huddersfield 3-0 at Anfield shouldn't mean a thing in the larger context, but it's these sort of teams we've struggled with.

      That said, for me, personally, this win doesn't mean a thing. People say a win is a win, but so what? A win is a win means nothing if you can't build on that. Three wins in 11 games changes nothing.

      /rant over
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 44,014 posts | 5760 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14673: Oct 28, 2017 06:14:44 pm
      but it's these sort of teams we've struggled with.

      We've struggled with every team apart from Arsenal this season mate  :couch:

      Until now, obviously.

      Quick Reply