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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Sevilla?

      Loris Karius
      0 (0%)
      Joe Gomez
      0 (0%)
      Dejan Lovren
      2 (2.4%)
      Joel Matip
      1 (1.2%)
      Alberto Moreno
      23 (27.7%)
      Jordan Henderson
      1 (1.2%)
      Emre Can
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      13 (15.7%)
      Mohammed Salah
      25 (30.1%)
      Sadio Mane
      11 (13.3%)
      Roberto Firmino
      7 (8.4%)
      Philippe Coutinho
      0 (0%)
      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
      0 (0%)
      Daniel Sturridge
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 79

      Voting closed: Sep 17, 2017 09:40:33 pm

      Liverpool 2-2 Sevilla : In game and Post Match discussion

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      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #460: Sep 14, 2017 03:27:28 pm
      ...  our keeper failed to save them.

      ON the first, Karius has to be at the near post as the attacker comes in from that side near the byline. It is totally down to Gomez not closing him down well enough and Lovren whiffing on what should have been an easy clearance (that was match-fixing investigation type stuff - just clown-like).

      On the 2nd, I guess he could have made a highlight-reel type save, but I think it's much more down to Henderson being out of position, no other midfielder covering and Lovren failing to mark properly. If Karius shares blame, he's pretty down the blame list a bit. I'm not convinced about him by any means, but I thought he did pretty well on serves into the box last night.
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #461: Sep 14, 2017 04:30:36 pm
      No, you're talking total sh*t here JD, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest we could be that poor from a simple throw in:

      https://twitter.com/Anfield_Talk/status/908276469662720000

       :f_doh:

      Actually I think other than Can, everyone is where he should be.

      Gomez had just conceded the throw in and was near the sideline, so Henderson rightly covers for him. If he doesn't and the throw in goes over Gomez, Matip has to step out, leaving a huge gap between our CB's. Matip's movement in the image also suggests he's giving cover in that area. So far so good.

      The way our midfield works, they take over each other's positions and sometimes rotate if one of the players step out. Can should be in front of our CB's giving cover and tracking the player in the middle. Perhaps even Wijnaldum, looking at that image, should have stepped out? We of course don't know what the players are shouting on the pitch and what was being said at that exact moment. Did Wijnaldum shout at Can? He can clearly see that no one is on that Sevilla player. Should he have stepped in himself if Can clearly doesn't react to it? This just looks like an other case of lack of communication and lack of a leader in the middle. In these situations you're constantly shouting at each other to make sure everyone is where he should be. Both Matip / Henderson should be making sure of that here.
      Boston not la
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #462: Sep 14, 2017 05:09:12 pm
      The peno miss cost us the game but i enjoyed the match anyways,had the whole bar to myself except the bartender, :ernaehrung004: then we had the second half of the Harvard womens game,god that was absolute sh*te did make our defenders look like world beaters though!top of the group. :kop5cf8koxp6:
      red_kaiser
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #463: Sep 14, 2017 05:21:06 pm
      It is results like this which could be the difference between us finishing top or second in the group and in knock outs, they would kill us.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #464: Sep 14, 2017 05:33:47 pm
      One other thing - and this is probably as negative as I'll ever be here: ENOUGH with the quotes about "we have to learn from this." Just stop saying that (it was Joel Matip this time, but everybody including the manager seems to take his turn with this quote). It's as if you are being held back in the third grade...like 44 times. So you're 52 now and you're in the third grade and you just can't quite get what a verb is or your multiplication tables or whatever it is they were teaching back in third grade.

      Stop saying 'we have to learn" and freaking learn it.

      And I know Bubby, stop waiting for them to learn it and get somebody new in there. I know, I know.

      *dies*
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #465: Sep 14, 2017 05:36:07 pm
      Actually I think other than Can, everyone is where he should be.



      You're forgetting the important part, the dozy cu*ts switched off and fell asleep!!

      It happened twice with two free-kicks we gave away in the second half as well, Sevilla took a quick short one and our lot all switched off and just trotting back in to position.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #466: Sep 14, 2017 05:37:09 pm
      One other thing - and this is probably as negative as I'll ever be here: ENOUGH with the quotes about "we have to learn from this." Just stop saying that (it was Joel Matip this time, but everybody including the manager seems to take his turn with this quote). It's as if you are being held back in the third grade...like 44 times. So you're 52 now and you're in the third grade and you just can't quite get what a verb is or your multiplication tables or whatever it is they were teaching back in third grade.

      Stop saying 'we have to learn" and freaking learn it.

      And I know Bubby, stop waiting for them to learn it and get somebody new in there. I know, I know.

      *dies*


      Bloody annoying that mate been hearing that since Rafa left!

      On Matip he certainly has had a bit of a free ride this season only because Lovren/Klavan have been that poor.

      He really is the epitome of a gentle giant, never seen a CB so passive.

      Cad1875
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #467: Sep 14, 2017 06:11:30 pm
      What capped it for me last night was with minutes to go ,the ball comes of Matip I think it was to go out for a throw in he then trots down the track to get the ball back to hand it to the Sevilla player to keep it going and hurry the proceedings up,  meanwhile as he`s trotting down the track to get the ball the ball boy throws another  ball to the Spaniard he plays it to his buddy and hes of Matip`s left high and dry he made up the ground and it came to nothing but F**k me wake the F**k up. :f_steam:
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #468: Sep 14, 2017 09:37:27 pm
      Actually I think other than Can, everyone is where he should be.

      Gomez had just conceded the throw in and was near the sideline, so Henderson rightly covers for him. If he doesn't and the throw in goes over Gomez, Matip has to step out, leaving a huge gap between our CB's. Matip's movement in the image also suggests he's giving cover in that area. So far so good.

      The way our midfield works, they take over each other's positions and sometimes rotate if one of the players step out. Can should be in front of our CB's giving cover and tracking the player in the middle. Perhaps even Wijnaldum, looking at that image, should have stepped out? We of course don't know what the players are shouting on the pitch and what was being said at that exact moment. Did Wijnaldum shout at Can? He can clearly see that no one is on that Sevilla player. Should he have stepped in himself if Can clearly doesn't react to it? This just looks like an other case of lack of communication and lack of a leader in the middle. In these situations you're constantly shouting at each other to make sure everyone is where he should be. Both Matip / Henderson should be making sure of that here.

      Can't agree with you on this one. Can is most certainly out of position and granted had he picked up the man then things would look fine but laying all the blame on Can for this simply lets the other players off the hook in my view. Our players simply must identify threats and be able to gauge that threat against another potential threat rather than simply doing what they're drilled to do without their brain in gear. On this occasion none of our right hand side react well enough.

      Salah and Gomez don't need to pick up the man throwing the ball, he doesn't require marking until he becomes active and therefore shouldn't be perceived as a threat, especially from that area of the pitch. The moment the ball goes out Salah should move to pick up the nearest available threat on his side. You could argue there's nobody on his side so he's fine and in not picking up anyone is also providing a threat on the counter but it's risk to reward, is that man being free in the centre really less of a risk than the reward of a potential quick break away, it clearly isn't. He should already be communicating with Can or doing his job for him, he's too happy to do nothing on this occasion. So while he'll never get any of the blame, he could quite easily have contributed more.

      Henderson is also wrong to pick up the man down the line because it's his leaving of this area that exposes the centre backs. I do understand that in a perfect world Can slots in for Hendo the moment he leaves but Henderson can't leave without being sure Can can pick up the space/man he's left behind. On this occasion it simply has to be more of a threat developing for Hendo to leave that space and with Matip covering in behind and with us having so many men spare allowing that attack to develop (1 man) on the wing should only drag Matip over and he can cover the man he is about to leave totally unmarked. It was a poor decision, understandable but still poor.

      Lovren I've no issue with, other than the fact he looks half asleep, he's fine. Wijnaldum the same, he really can't rush in there or we've got an overload on the far side with a simple pass and that will result in a man getting a clear and unmarked shot on goal, so he has to cover the potential flick on header or the overlap.

      To clarify: Can is absolutely the one who takes the largest portion of blame for simply not doing his job at all, but the error is compounded by further poor choices from Henderson and Salah. Further to this the communication from every single player in that shot needs to be better, the moment someone isn't doing their job someone should be telling them and demanding they give as much as everyone else.

      It's the problem that has long been levelled at our side, there's a lot of sheep and not enough leaders. We need someone dominant who knows what they're doing and communicates it well, unfortunately I don't think that player is even in our squad and that's a situation that needs rectifying.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #469: Sep 15, 2017 12:43:03 pm

      You seem to be. We missed a pen and two or three clear cut chances, Mane and Salah were excellent, we didn't finish them off and got punished by two massive defensive errors.

      If you're going to criticize, actually base it on facts rather then general "I didn't see this and that..."

      Liverpool fans are generally clued up, intelligent and fair. But there are always those that buck the trend.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 : In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #470: Sep 16, 2017 10:10:37 am
      Can't agree with you on this one. Can is most certainly out of position and granted had he picked up the man then things would look fine but laying all the blame on Can for this simply lets the other players off the hook in my view. Our players simply must identify threats and be able to gauge that threat against another potential threat rather than simply doing what they're drilled to do without their brain in gear. On this occasion none of our right hand side react well enough.

      Salah and Gomez don't need to pick up the man throwing the ball, he doesn't require marking until he becomes active and therefore shouldn't be perceived as a threat, especially from that area of the pitch. The moment the ball goes out Salah should move to pick up the nearest available threat on his side. You could argue there's nobody on his side so he's fine and in not picking up anyone is also providing a threat on the counter but it's risk to reward, is that man being free in the centre really less of a risk than the reward of a potential quick break away, it clearly isn't. He should already be communicating with Can or doing his job for him, he's too happy to do nothing on this occasion. So while he'll never get any of the blame, he could quite easily have contributed more.

      Henderson is also wrong to pick up the man down the line because it's his leaving of this area that exposes the centre backs. I do understand that in a perfect world Can slots in for Hendo the moment he leaves but Henderson can't leave without being sure Can can pick up the space/man he's left behind. On this occasion it simply has to be more of a threat developing for Hendo to leave that space and with Matip covering in behind and with us having so many men spare allowing that attack to develop (1 man) on the wing should only drag Matip over and he can cover the man he is about to leave totally unmarked. It was a poor decision, understandable but still poor.

      Lovren I've no issue with, other than the fact he looks half asleep, he's fine. Wijnaldum the same, he really can't rush in there or we've got an overload on the far side with a simple pass and that will result in a man getting a clear and unmarked shot on goal, so he has to cover the potential flick on header or the overlap.

      To clarify: Can is absolutely the one who takes the largest portion of blame for simply not doing his job at all, but the error is compounded by further poor choices from Henderson and Salah. Further to this the communication from every single player in that shot needs to be better, the moment someone isn't doing their job someone should be telling them and demanding they give as much as everyone else.

      It's the problem that has long been levelled at our side, there's a lot of sheep and not enough leaders. We need someone dominant who knows what they're doing and communicates it well, unfortunately I don't think that player is even in our squad and that's a situation that needs rectifying.

      Great post mate, I'd say it's definitely Can and possibly Salah who are at fault.

      They are both marking nothing really. Not a white shirt anywhere near them and they certainly aren't marking a space.

      Even Gomez is doing nothing really there is no point him being so close to the thrower there are only two Sevilla players available to pass to and none of them are a short option.

      Can you imagine a situation like that coming up with a Carra or Terry type defender being on the pitch.

      Not a chance in my opinion, they'd have been virtually placing people exactly where they wanted them on the pitch.
      « Last Edit: Sep 16, 2017 10:16:32 am by LFCSTEVE1984 »

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