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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23253: Sep 03, 2017 10:39:32 am
      When you say pissing against the wind is that due to the fact that the people I'm in a discussion with will never admit we have a poor defence?

      I never said we don't have a poor defence... I said its not impossible to win the league letting in the amount of goals we did last season and gave you three examples of when Utd have won the league conceding more than we did last year.

      Poor is relative anyway... But the point stands that you can win the league letting in the goals we did last year, history has proven it on more than one occasion

      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23254: Sep 03, 2017 11:04:48 am
      We were rated the 4th best team in Europe then

      Now we are rated 34th

      Has there really been an improvement?

      You are just a WUM or rather thick
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23255: Sep 03, 2017 11:19:18 am
      Blind men can see we haven't been good defensively for years. I think you're missing the point of those you're discussing with - as you have a solid habit of doing.

      You will have to excuse me for not 'reading between the lines' I was in the pub having a few beers the other day

      But personally I don't think there are any line to read between. Another window has come and gone and we have failed to get have failed to get a defensive leader.

      That's the be all and end all - We should of got someone and we didn't
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23256: Sep 03, 2017 11:30:28 am
      I never said we don't have a poor defence... I said its not impossible to win the league letting in the amount of goals we did last season and gave you three examples of when Utd have won the league conceding more than we did last year.

      Poor is relative anyway... But the point stands that you can win the league letting in the goals we did last year, history has proven it on more than one occasion


      Point taken - You are right !

      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23257: Sep 03, 2017 11:42:05 am

      I might not of been in the best of form when I posted that.

      It does go to show you can prove anything with statistics 😉
      Magillionare
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23258: Sep 03, 2017 01:24:29 pm
      I might not of been in the best of form when I posted that.

      It does go to show you can prove anything with statistics 😉

      I think it shows the exact opposite. You've proven nothing using statistics.
      trebor12
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23259: Sep 03, 2017 01:30:45 pm
      I think what we are looking at with FSG that they very much bought into the FFP that EUFA brought in. If you look at our transfers, we don't look at the prices we are paying for players, it's very much centred on net spend. That's what FFP is isn't it, you only pay out on players what you can earn as a club. We now know that these figures can be muniplated by the sugar daddy clubs e.g PSG, Man City but I think FSG believe in FPP either that or they are using it as an excuse. We all want these £100 million players or we want to look like we are competing with the best by buy them plus it was looking like we were being linked to alot of them this season but IMO we are not going to spending the amounts of money that your PSG,s are willing to spend.
      FSG have a very clear mandate and they always have. If you think £35 to £40 million is not alot of money then theres something wrong somewhere. Keita buy for next season has smashed our transfer record by a considerable amount. Personally I think these rich clubs spend just to look good. City is a prime example. There is no guarantee for city this season and the amount of money that they have spent that they will win this league this year.
      FSG have brought in a manager who has proven ability to win a league or at least compete without spending vast amounts of cash. They are fully onboard with FFP and what it stands for and I don't think that will change unless FFP is scraped or deemed to prove that it does not work. Time will tell now if eufa throw the book at PSG but I think this is how FSG want to operate and that's obide by FFP rules, buy young talent or develop young talent to turn these players into big players like Coutinho and Sterling. That's just the way they want things IMO and whether that takes us to where we want to be is the question.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23260: Sep 03, 2017 01:35:15 pm
      You will have to excuse me for not 'reading between the lines' I was in the pub having a few beers the other day

      But personally I don't think there are any line to read between. Another window has come and gone and we have failed to get have failed to get a defensive leader.

      That's the be all and end all - We should of got someone and we didn't

      If anything a beer usually helps me find some form of clarity that my usual anxious mind clouds.

      If there is no defensive leader to be gotten, then what have we failed to get? People like you think these guys grow on F***ing trees or something? If this is so easy to do, why doesn't everyone have a F***ing A+ defence?
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23261: Sep 03, 2017 01:40:32 pm

      To be honest I fail to see any problem in stating the truth, we do still lack quality in depth.
      Whether you blame the assorted managers that have been appointed, the people who appointed them or the transfer committee is an issue in itself.
      The common element amongst the variables stated and the controlling factor in that eight year time scale is FSG.

      Do you not think there is a hint of blame spreading in that scenario?
      Would it be conceivable that it is advantageous to one or more individuals to promote such a situation?
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23262: Sep 03, 2017 02:16:32 pm
      I think it shows the exact opposite. You've proven nothing using statistics.

      In most circumstances being rated 3rd is considered better than being rated 34th.
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23263: Sep 03, 2017 02:21:19 pm
      If anything a beer usually helps me find some form of clarity that my usual anxious mind clouds.

      If there is no defensive leader to be gotten, then what have we failed to get? People like you think these guys grow on f**king trees or something? If this is so easy to do, why doesn't everyone have a f**king A+ defence?


      We have needed a defensive leader since Carragher left.

      The 9th richest club in the world should of found that person by now!
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23264: Sep 03, 2017 02:28:03 pm
      In most circumstances being rated 3rd is considered better than being rated 34th.


      If you think that our European rating is directly attributed to defence and nothing more, then you are still failing between the lines.

      We have needed a defensive leader since Carragher left.

      The 9th richest club in the world should of found that person by now!

      Money doesn't buy leaders - politics aside.
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23265: Sep 03, 2017 02:53:48 pm
      If you think that our European rating is directly attributed to defence and nothing more, then you are still failing between the lines.

      Money doesn't buy leaders - politics aside.
      The rating is the rating - I don't think I used it in a correct way. But it is what it is.

      During the Ferguson era Man u used there money to buy leader. If you look at there players who were hard, had guts and made sure the players around them were doing the right thing  they all came from other clubs.

      We have money we should be able to get a better defence
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23266: Sep 03, 2017 03:15:50 pm

      Quite sure he's actually neither. He doesn't like these owners and neither do a lot of us. Thing is,  I'll praise them when it's due. Shame a few of the people who are on the other side of the fence refuse to criticise them even slightly when due.

      We could've won that league last year if we had the bollocks for it but all we heard was how it was a hard window for them in January? There's a f**king world of players out there and everyone knew we were a couple of injuries and a Mane at the AFCON away from having our wheels fall off. Then what happened come January?

      But it was January wasn't it? Some f**king scouting system that.

      Last Summer seen some good additions but injuries put paid to a Championship push when we were in a lovely position. Yeah we got that CL spot but we could've had much more.

      There's been far too much "at least they have tried though ay?" type chat with nowhere near enough big moments or windows since their time here.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again that any success under Klopp will be despite them and not because of them,  enough.
      « Last Edit: Sep 03, 2017 03:41:04 pm by what-a-hit-son »
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23267: Sep 03, 2017 05:41:59 pm
      Money doesn't buy leaders - politics aside.

      We bought Suarez who led by example for the most part, we bought Sami who was a vocal leader...
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23268: Sep 03, 2017 06:17:36 pm
      We bought Suarez who led by example for the most part, we bought Sami who was a vocal leader...

      Yeah I would say money can buy you a leader. All you have to do is look at players with the make up and characteristics to lead a team. Someone vocal or even a lead by example type.

      Matip seems to be a good defender but doesn't appear to be one who will take control of a line like Carragher used to do. I think Van Dijk would have been more that man.

      I do think that back 4 needs a presence to play with TAA, Moreno, and Matip to stabalise us even more. Those 3 seem to worry about their own game and not the line as a whole. Same for Migs too. When it comes to defending corners a commander like Hyypia/Carragher would be much appreciated.

      When Carra was there for example he held great pride in a clean sheet and even if we were 4-0 up would be furious if we let a goal in. I think we miss a bit of that attitude these days where the team was expected to not concede goals.
      « Last Edit: Sep 03, 2017 06:21:49 pm by fields of anny rd »
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23269: Sep 04, 2017 12:31:50 am
      The rating is the rating - I don't think I used it in a correct way. But it is what it is.

      During the Ferguson era Man u used there money to buy leader. If you look at there players who were hard, had guts and made sure the players around them were doing the right thing  they all came from other clubs.

      We have money we should be able to get a better defence

      We bought Suarez who led by example for the most part, we bought Sami who was a vocal leader...

      Yeah I would say money can buy you a leader. All you have to do is look at players with the make up and characteristics to lead a team. Someone vocal or even a lead by example type.

      Matip seems to be a good defender but doesn't appear to be one who will take control of a line like Carragher used to do. I think Van Dijk would have been more that man.

      I do think that back 4 needs a presence to play with TAA, Moreno, and Matip to stabalise us even more. Those 3 seem to worry about their own game and not the line as a whole. Same for Migs too. When it comes to defending corners a commander like Hyypia/Carragher would be much appreciated.

      When Carra was there for example he held great pride in a clean sheet and even if we were 4-0 up would be furious if we let a goal in. I think we miss a bit of that attitude these days where the team was expected to not concede goals.

      Is the thickness and inability to read between lines/gauge context contagious in this forum? Do I need to get the ol mask on?

      Of course the exchange of money, unless on a Bosman, brings in a player. One of those may be a leader. So f**king bravo guys :lmao:

      My point being, you can't simply expect to throw money at the problem without due diligence. Owners and large wads of cash are not the only deciding factors in finding your leaders, especially defensively. Ol mate Eddieo here seems to think everything is easy.

      Suarez led by example? He was a freak of an athlete who could do amazing things up front, and the team pretty much just fed that to a certain extent. He was hardly a leader overall, however. Also a bargain in hindsight that really none of us expected to be THAT good - and also due to certain nibbles and massive match bans. I F***ing loved Suarez. Still do, oddly. Think there's a lot to be said for a bloke that came from his background to where he is now. I never saw him as a leader ala Gerrard, however.

      Sami was bought cheap and blew low expectations out of the water to become a player we all remember fondly and miss dearly. So thanks for helping prove my point.

      Carra was a system bloke that came through, so as with Gerrard, his leadership is literally impossible to buy because that was grown through the unique circumstance of their football life being entirely Liverpool. These examples people throw out, the context will never be the same.

      I find it curious that a guy like VvD was seen as such a leadership option considering he was tossing his toys to try and get here having signed a recent contract. I was all for the move, but I was gonna let his footy do the talking before any massive predictions.

      I wish to all f**k that we had signed a competent CB that had leadership qualities. But in this day and age of player movement what it is, player power and big money - the Carra's and the Sami's are just not around anymore. Skill set aside, the kind of passion and desire that drove those fellas is different now. They will be incredibly rare and hard to find, that particular type. That's modern footy. So while I am disappointed that FSG hasn't helped facilitate a move for the right CB, I understand it may not be as easy as some seem to think. 40/50/60/70m+ is a f**king sh*t load of money, I'd wanna make sure it was the right move. They are certainly hitting the mark with many of our transfers in the last couple years, so I'm gonna trust in the process as it is currently moving with Jürgen and enjoy the ride, until circumstances dictate otherwise. Certainly not in bad shape right now.
      « Last Edit: Sep 04, 2017 12:49:07 am by bigvYNWA »
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23270: Sep 04, 2017 07:00:06 am
      My point being, you can't simply expect to throw money at the problem without due diligence. Owners and large wads of cash are not the only deciding factors in finding your leaders, especially defensively. Ol mate Eddieo here seems to think everything is easy.
      I have never ever said it is easy!

      And I don't expect them to get every transfer right!

      But what I do expect is when it is blindingly obvious that changes are needed something should be done. It's not as if this problem has just happened, you said "Blind men can see we haven't been good defensively for YEARS"

      So we aren't talking about one or two transfers windows, we are talking about several.

      Years of the same problem

      YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!



      « Last Edit: Sep 04, 2017 07:06:06 am by Eddieo »
      Joey B
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23271: Sep 05, 2017 07:21:19 am
      WOW !! 782 posts and that is just in the FSG thread.
      Imagine if you could count all the negative sh*te in all the thread ( most of them )Personally i'm sick of reading a thread of interest to me that evolves into " slating FSG ".Is it possible to " stay on topic " pleeeze.
      Joey B
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23272: Sep 05, 2017 07:22:36 am
      WOW !! 782 posts and that is just in the FSG thread.
      Imagine if you could count all the negative sh*te in all the thread ( most of them )Personally i'm sick of reading a thread of interest to me that evolves into " slating FSG ".Is it possible to " stay on topic " pleeeze.

      Sorry ( Pages not posts )
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23273: Sep 05, 2017 11:50:23 am
      Is the thickness and inability to read between lines/gauge context contagious in this forum? Do I need to get the ol mask on?

      Of course the exchange of money, unless on a Bosman, brings in a player. One of those may be a leader. So f**king bravo guys :lmao:

      My point being, you can't simply expect to throw money at the problem without due diligence. Owners and large wads of cash are not the only deciding factors in finding your leaders, especially defensively. Ol mate Eddieo here seems to think everything is easy.

      Suarez led by example? He was a freak of an athlete who could do amazing things up front, and the team pretty much just fed that to a certain extent. He was hardly a leader overall, however. Also a bargain in hindsight that really none of us expected to be THAT good - and also due to certain nibbles and massive match bans. I F***ing loved Suarez. Still do, oddly. Think there's a lot to be said for a bloke that came from his background to where he is now. I never saw him as a leader ala Gerrard, however.

      Sami was bought cheap and blew low expectations out of the water to become a player we all remember fondly and miss dearly. So thanks for helping prove my point.

      Carra was a system bloke that came through, so as with Gerrard, his leadership is literally impossible to buy because that was grown through the unique circumstance of their football life being entirely Liverpool. These examples people throw out, the context will never be the same.

      I find it curious that a guy like VvD was seen as such a leadership option considering he was tossing his toys to try and get here having signed a recent contract. I was all for the move, but I was gonna let his footy do the talking before any massive predictions.

      I wish to all f**k that we had signed a competent CB that had leadership qualities. But in this day and age of player movement what it is, player power and big money - the Carra's and the Sami's are just not around anymore. Skill set aside, the kind of passion and desire that drove those fellas is different now. They will be incredibly rare and hard to find, that particular type. That's modern footy. So while I am disappointed that FSG hasn't helped facilitate a move for the right CB, I understand it may not be as easy as some seem to think. 40/50/60/70m+ is a f**king sh*t load of money, I'd wanna make sure it was the right move. They are certainly hitting the mark with many of our transfers in the last couple years, so I'm gonna trust in the process as it is currently moving with Jürgen and enjoy the ride, until circumstances dictate otherwise. Certainly not in bad shape right now.

      ...so basically money can buy you a leader ;D
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23274: Sep 05, 2017 12:21:40 pm

      When Carra was there for example he held great pride in a clean sheet and even if we were 4-0 up would be furious if we let a goal in. I think we miss a bit of that attitude these days where the team was expected to not concede goals.

      Can't remember who it was against but we were comfortable and Carra nearly lamped Arbeloa one for losing concentration and nearly costing us a goal and our clean sheet. Don't have that kind of passion in our defence anymore.

      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23275: Sep 05, 2017 12:22:46 pm
      Can't remember who it was against but we were comfortable and Carra nearly lamped Arbeloa one for losing concentration and nearly costing us a goal and our clean sheet. Don't have that kind of passion in our defence anymore.

      West Brom

      When we were going for a clean sheet record of some sort

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