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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13547: Sep 14, 2017 12:15:22 am
      I'd swap Henderson with N'Zonzi in a heartbeat.
      I'd swap Hendersh*te for a pack of pork scratchings.
      lreland
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13548: Sep 14, 2017 12:22:43 am
      Sad thing klopp sound like Brenden Rogers now were see no wrong with defense or midfield these year
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Mana
      Reply #13549: Sep 14, 2017 12:23:43 am
      Thoughts : does Jürgen purposefully set his teams up to disregard the art of defending or is he and his staff just incapable of coaching it?
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13550: Sep 14, 2017 01:30:41 am
      Failing to get your top defensive target is not great news, not having an alternative is worse news. In those events it would have been totally understandable and desirable for Klopp to bite his lip and reintegrate Sakho. But nope. Off he went on the last day of the window.

      A succession of failures that are coming home to roost on nights like this.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13551: Sep 14, 2017 02:53:40 am
      Seven games in (including the Champions League qualifiers), thirteen goals conceded. As far as the league goals, four games played, eight conceeded. Only one other team in the entire league has conceded more (West Ham) and three others have conceded as many.  This is an inescapable fact and one that could have been avoided with better planning by the DoF and less obstinence by the maanger, and his intransigence over our defence has not only been made a mockery of, but is an ongoing liability to our ambitions.

      The very idea that there is no one anywhere in the world better than Lovren or Klavan, that throughout gobal Football, the only  player possess the neccessary leadership qualities was Van Dyke is ridiculous; I'd say laughable but there's nothing laughable about watching your defence do its very best impression of the parting of the Red Sea every time someone attacks us. Seven games in, the transfer window is looking increasingly like a failure. I only hope the proper planning for January is in place otherwise this is going to be a long, and difficult season to watch.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13552: Sep 14, 2017 04:58:22 am
      Quote from 5timesacharm
      Seven games in (including the Champions League qualifiers), thirteen goals conceded. As far as the league goals, four games played, eight conceeded. Only one other team in the entire league has conceded more (West Ham) and three others have conceded as many.  This is an inescapable fact and one that could have been avoided.

      Here's another inescapable fact.

      Of the 8 goals conceded in the league,  4 were with 10 men, 2 others were offside. That leaves 2 goals where mistakes were made. Half the league games so far resulted in clean sheets. We hear about corners all the time, but we also haven't conceded from a corner in a month.

      I'm not making allowances for this defence. We've had far better defences in years gone by, but we knew what we were getting when we appointed this coach. "Heavy metal football", and this is it in action. It has got us to two cup finals, and our first European Cup involvement in 3 years. Despite that, some people say we've made no progress since he took over. Everyone fears playing against us, everyone wants to watch us, even players are finally queueing up to come here. If you really want to rip all that up and find someone to focus on defending and clean sheets, there's plenty out there, most of them out of work. I hear someone called Allardyce is free atm.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13553: Sep 14, 2017 05:28:42 am
      Here's another inescapable fact.

      Of the 8 goals conceded in the league,  4 were with 10 men, 2 others were offside. That leaves 2 goals where mistakes were made. Half the league games so far resulted in clean sheets. We hear about corners all the time, but we also haven't conceded from a corner in a month.

      I'm not making allowances for this defence. We've had far better defences in years gone by, but we knew what we were getting when we appointed this coach. "Heavy metal football", and this is it in action. It has got us to two cup finals, and our first European Cup involvement in 3 years. Despite that, some people say we've made no progress since he took over. Everyone fears playing against us, everyone wants to watch us, even players are finally queueing up to come here. If you really want to rip all that up and find someone to focus on defending and clean sheets, there's plenty out there, most of them out of work. I hear someone called Allardyce is free atm.

      The 10 men isn't a excuse IMO. You defend with 10 men more often than not, especially with our attack. If the 10 men hurt anything it was on the offensive side, not the defense. Fact of the matter is in 7 games this year we have conceded 13 goals. The D is crap brother. You got a guy in there that can't handle the most basic of crosses in front of goal. With Migs, Lovern, and Moreno on the pitch no lead is safe.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13554: Sep 14, 2017 07:10:27 am
      We drew 2-2 in a game we could and should have won.

      Coutinho made his comeback and we know he needs game time in order to sparkle so that's a plus.

      As frustrating as the last 2 games are - we're 3 points off the top in league and joint top in UCL group.

      Yes there are issues / frustrations but the hyperbole in this and other threads is ridiculous from some.

      The window is closed so there's no f***in' point now bitching about VVD or a new goalie etc etc.

      They need to work hard and improve on the training ground - which is exactly what Klopp is saying.

      The errors are largely down to poor concentration and intensity - it's that that determines good from great in football more than abilities in my humble opinion.

      3 weeks ago people were saying Can was the best midfield prospect in Europe and to "give him what he wants"........

      We aren't going to be the 1-0 specialists - we are the most exhilarating team in the league going forward. We need to embrace that and find a way to minimise the fragility but we are always going to be able to be got at at some point.

      We're not Newcastle and Klopp isn't Keegan - that's ludicrous about a man who's won 2 Bundisliga titles versus a man who's won hee haw.

      3 points on Saturday and again in Moscow and the world looks entirely different.

      Perspective and acceptance required. No point wailing a gnashing teeth about what we don't have..........we have plenty and need to use it more ruthlessly.
      Brian78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13555: Sep 14, 2017 07:59:00 am

      Whats it about then?

      Couldnt or wouldnt sign someone in the summer. Fine. Then its your job to coach what you have to defend properly. Positional sense, communication, every aspect of defending is poor and is undoing our brilliant attacking play.

      Buck stops with Klopp on this and trying to deflecg saying its not about this is rubbish. Maybe he needs to stop the high fives and hugs and bollok the back 4 more until they wake up and get the message
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13556: Sep 14, 2017 08:02:43 am
      The gamble of not bringing in defensive reinforcements is backfiring at the moment.
      Billo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13557: Sep 14, 2017 08:10:33 am
      In Kloppo i Trust. Makes mistakes but who doesnt??
      RC9
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13558: Sep 14, 2017 09:13:43 am
      I am a big fan of Klopp as a man manager and as a winner.

      But he is frustratingly stubborn, not buying a CB because his holding out for his guy. Thus, putting our team in jeopardy, not playing Coutinho for our two biggest games of the season so far.

      He refuses to drop Henderson from the DM role which i think he isn't good enough to make his own and persists with swapping around keepers, which can only destabilize an already unstable defense.

      I don't want him out or anything like that but can't pretend i am not frustrated with the man.

      Come on Klopp get the team playing rock n roll with a solid defense pleaseeee.
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13559: Sep 14, 2017 09:24:23 am
      In Kloppo i Trust. Makes mistakes but who doesnt??
      Everyone makes mistakes. It's ok to make mistakes - as long as you learn from them and rectify them. The trouble with Klopp and his backroom staff is that we don't seem to be doing either.
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13560: Sep 14, 2017 10:02:13 am
      Been thinking about it and if I am honest, the majority of our problems are down to Klopp.

      He buys the players, he picks the players, he directs training (at least I assume he does; he seems a very "hands on" type of manager), he chooses the tactics, when to make substitutions, and - more importantly from our perspective - he also gets final say on who leaves, who comes in, and who doesn't, during transfer windows.

      I don't think it is all Klopp's fault though. He's probably the best manager we've had since Houllier, and we know players will make mistakes more often than not. Whether Lovren, Hansen, Henderson, Gerrard, Mignolet, or Clemence, they're only human and will make mistakes. But it's a manager's job to try to eliminate those mistakes, and it's done by coaching and bringing in a more consistent player.

      That said, I have to keep perspective. 10 men vs City, probably only one player away from having a solid defence, and Keita is on the way. But yeah, for me, Klopp isn't making things easy for himself. He really needs to stop thinking attack for a while, and concentrate on defence. It's how we cannot defend from the front and as a unit which is as much of a problem as any individual errors are.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13561: Sep 14, 2017 11:07:52 am
      Here's another inescapable fact.

      Of the 8 goals conceded in the league,  4 were with 10 men, 2 others were offside. That leaves 2 goals where mistakes were made. Half the league games so far resulted in clean sheets. We hear about corners all the time, but we also haven't conceded from a corner in a month.

      I'm not making allowances for this defence. We've had far better defences in years gone by, but we knew what we were getting when we appointed this coach. "Heavy metal football", and this is it in action. It has got us to two cup finals, and our first European Cup involvement in 3 years. Despite that, some people say we've made no progress since he took over. Everyone fears playing against us, everyone wants to watch us, even players are finally queueing up to come here. If you really want to rip all that up and find someone to focus on defending and clean sheets, there's plenty out there, most of them out of work. I hear someone called Allardyce is free atm.

      Just because you have ten men doesn't mean you concede goals. In fact, having ten men should lessen the chances of conceding because normally a team goes into game management mode, not Kevin Keegan mode. Stop making excuses, we fu**ed up in the transfer window and now we're paying the price. We have a defence that is not, was not and will not be fit for purpose. Klopp reckoned it was. Thirteen goals down to organisational and individual errors prove otherwise.
      thanks2shanks
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13562: Sep 14, 2017 11:08:46 am
      Didi Hamann thinks this is the most unbalanced squad in LFC's history:
      https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0913/904543-didi-liverpool-going-nowhere-under-klopp/
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13563: Sep 14, 2017 11:21:26 am

      He is right and he also said he doesn't see this Liverpool team going anywhere as well.

      If we can't defend then we have no hope of winning anything.

      Klopp reckons buying players won't sort out that problem, so surely that means he thinks the players we have here are good players.

      If buying won't solve the problem then that leaves the training ground and 18 months in to his tenure we are as poor defensively as we were under Brendan.

      That is unless he is talking bollocks and knows full well we need better defenders.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13564: Sep 14, 2017 11:24:18 am
      One misplaced pass and we are in trouble, looking more and more that the tactics are just to heavily placed on attack which is too high risk because with the likes of Hendo and Can a misplaced pass is pretty likely.

      Our back four and keeper take a lot of grief and rightly so BUT the system leaves them wide open and vulnerable in most games.

      I noticed at one point Firmino losing the ball in the opposition half and it was like the parting of the Red Sea for the Sevilla player to break into our half, tactics as well as players seems a issue, Klopp has too much faith in the ability of these players.
      Mind you simple solution would be a prope DM!

      Absolutely mate, we are instantly in trouble the moment we lose the ball. We're too spread out, too open with too many players level or beyond the ball. Added to which, as you have said we do not have a midfielder with the defensive nous to see some of these pictures before they happen, Klopp clearly isn't a fan of such players given that we had two of them (Lucas and Stewart) and both have been let go. The thing for me is that we do not need to be quite so attacking with the players we now have. We could play 10 yards deeper and commit less bodies so far forward and still create plenty of chances. Our full backs need  not get quite so far up the pitch and one of them could definitely sit and tuck in if the other is bombing on. It would only take a few tweaks here and there.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13565: Sep 14, 2017 11:25:51 am

      Is this fake news or what? Hands up those giving up on Klopp because he hasn't sorted out our defence.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13566: Sep 14, 2017 11:26:10 am
      Here's another inescapable fact.

      Of the 8 goals conceded in the league,  4 were with 10 men, 2 others were offside. That leaves 2 goals where mistakes were made. Half the league games so far resulted in clean sheets. We hear about corners all the time, but we also haven't conceded from a corner in a month.

      I'm not making allowances for this defence. We've had far better defences in years gone by, but we knew what we were getting when we appointed this coach. "Heavy metal football", and this is it in action. It has got us to two cup finals, and our first European Cup involvement in 3 years. Despite that, some people say we've made no progress since he took over. Everyone fears playing against us, everyone wants to watch us, even players are finally queueing up to come here. If you really want to rip all that up and find someone to focus on defending and clean sheets, there's plenty out there, most of them out of work. I hear someone called Allardyce is free atm.

      That's wonderful etc but the fact we can't defend to save our F***ing lives will also be the F***ing undoing of us in this competition. Rip it all up I don't F***ing care because Klopp is in no way a genius like Bob Paisley, you know the man who laid the F***ing blueprint for Liverpool FC in Europe, and usually that meant boring the arse of every c**t with clean sheets, but it also put a shed load of trophies in the trophy cabinet.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13567: Sep 14, 2017 11:29:53 am

      He's not wrong like, we're great at full flow going forward, but that defence is starting to get F***ing embarrassing, plus they're given no help by covering midfielders. Oh for a DM like Didi again!!
      redindian
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13568: Sep 14, 2017 11:30:26 am
      Been thinking about it and if I am honest, the majority of our problems are down to Klopp.



      I disagree. The goals we let in are majorly schoolboy errors. Last season, we conceded 110 corners in total (5th in the table and 1 more than United). The number of active chances created against the defence has reduced considerably as we dominate games often although I don't have the exact numbers for the chances created against us. This is mainly due to our defence starting up front when we win the balls in unexpected spaces, thus reducing the chances of an attack on the defence which sometimes becomes an attack on the opposition's defence.

      Take this season for example. Against Watford, the second goal was a result of TAA failing to clear the ball properly, it hits Matip and falls in front the Watford player. The third goal is a result of Gini failing to head the ball clear. And, yesterday, Lovren fell on his ass for the first goal.

      While defending set pieces, we go for zonal marking and in one of the MNF programs, Klopp said that is due to personnel rather than personal preference. As a result, even though we conceded only 110 corners last season, 12% of them were converted to goals (Sunderland let in more and allowed only 8% to be converted to goals). When Klopp was managing Dortmund, there was a season when Dortmund let in only 22 goals in the entire season. Given the right personnel, the defence can be formidable again. That goes back to the same old question of yet another missed summer window.

      It is not fair to hold Klopp responsible for these schoolboy errors. Yesterday, Matip failed to clear a ball when he was under no pressure. which resulted in a corner. How can Klopp coach this? He is the manager of the senior squad, not the u18 team. If they are going to make such mistakes, they shouldn't be pro footballers in the first place.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13569: Sep 14, 2017 11:35:18 am

      Would only be fair if heimdall returns the favour and gives you a thumbs up!


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